In one hour of play tonight I took a very good pick and reduced it to about 150 uses (I repaired it yesterday, so it was almost new). It will take 39 Levels to repair it. I was at 15 levels. If I want to do more play then I have to switch to a slower pick (this is a good pick - Eff V) or combine a couple of others. I don't mind the speed of spawning with my skelly spawner. I just don't want to have to waste my sword and armor to get those levels. I am certain that If my spawner was converted to a room/mob arena that I would do fine at getting levels fast enough. I just don't want to run around killing them, when I can do it easily with 1 or 2 punches. it wastes my sword and armor. I don't have a shop, though I might open one some day. But then I don't think I complained about the time issue, I complained about the method. And I didn't really even complain, I just asked for clarification before I took on a task.
Of course it is easy, but then I was not talking about the time issue in this thread. I, in another thread, talked about needing levels to repair tools, which is nice when you have the tools that you like (though repair is limited, so eventually they cannot be repaired). So three levels is nice, but sometimes you need 39 levels to repair a pick (like my current Eff V pick). But going from 27 to 39 is not too long either. I am not complaining about the time. I am not even complaining, just clarifying. I am also not complaining about the nerf on XP. I asked for clarification about possible new mob farm rules and their impact on a mob farm I wanted to take on if it was legal. I don't like the possible changes to requiring mob farms to be arenas, because those can be a pain in my opinion. I can set one up and it will be no slower than my current arrangement, it will just use up armor and swords faster. Its not like a mob arena with a smelly spawner is any real risk to most of us with even half way decent armor (unless you purposely make it hard with darkness and things to make it slow to run around).
Maybe regarding the chicken farms, we could figure out a max number of chickens, to as to limit the spawn rate. Also, this is a system that works for 99% of players. This isn't an issue of whether something becoming unbalanced, it's an issue of being inconvenienced.
I can't count how many times I've teleported to an area with 100+ chickens bobbing up and down in a 2x2 or 1x1 pit of water. They spam sound, particles, collisions, and AI all at the same time. This has been in the works for over a month, Cyber added content that I feel was worded poorly, that is what may be changed. Enchant a new pickaxe and let the old one die. Enchantments changed, making repeat repairs more costly than making a new item. It should take some effort to kill monsters. They aren't crops you pull out of the ground, they are moving entities that want you dead. You may think the only difference is durability in tools and armor; with an arena, you can't just afk and reap levels. You are forced to use time, hunger, and durability to get a reward. It is not free, there is a cost associated with gaining xp (as there should be). Honestly if I had final say on this, I would completely disable all grinders. Really tired of dealing with them, balancing around them, etc. There is nothing saying mob farms must become arenas, what are you talking about? Mob farms and arenas, under the proposed rules, are exactly the same. If you were referring to grinders, then yes; if they are breaking restrictions, they must either be toned down or converted to mob farms/arenas. In any case, we aren't forcing the creation of arenas. For the rest of your post, what I said a section above.
I honestly don't see the point in these changes. Mob farms are only a pain for you to deal with because of all the rules you've enforced concerning them. All these changes are doing in turning away new players and making things more inconvenient for the current ones. I really appreciate all you are doing/have done/the huge amounts of time you put into making the server what it is today, but I think you are wrong on this one.
I have no idea how many times I have said this now, but they are a pain because: Client performance Server performance Economy impact (enchanting shops) PvP impact (effectively infinite enchanting and repair) Free McMMO xp in certain circumstances Difficulty balancing grinders AND naturally killing mobs Incompatibility with a quest/jobs system (rewards for mob kills) Lowered bar to reach end-game gear Promotes players afk'ing Removes the only punishment for suiciding You can't say anything about new players' reactions because they are proposed changes. They are not yet on the server, you can't possibly know what you are claiming. As for existing players, it will be different, but you still can't know it will be inconvenient. As with most players, you like features being added and hate features being removed. We want to add features that are completely incompatible with grinder use, so we have to start by enforcing limits. Balancing the ludicrous kill rate of grinders against natural mob kills is simply not possible. Beyond that, the proposals on grinders still allow a great degree of freedom, and are still a much greater kill rate than can be achieved in the wild. You are free to think I'm wrong. Likewise, I am free to assert that your facts are wrong.
Well those are already a violation of the farm rule. i just like the auto breeding of chickens. I set mine up where they seem to never get more than 5-10 in the killing area which is 1x7. Mine costs more in hoppers - but its less than 20. You are right that repeated repairs get progressively worse. But enchants are not always predictable. I know about using a stone tool to switch the enchant, but it still can burn through. Then to get the combo you want you have to combine to get that extra special pick. Like an Eff V, Silk Touch with Unbrk III. I am on my last repair, but its worth a few. I see your point, i just disagree. A Zombieis just an aggressive Potato. But values differ. My server - My Values. Max's Server, Max's Values. I understand that. My error. I misused arena. Arena is what Moose has set up. If I am understanding the rule proposal, My Skelly Spawner would have to dump the Skeletons into a place where they can attack me and maybe spread them out so I can't kill more than 1 per 4 seconds? So I could modify my current drop spawner by having them drop into water, in an open room, so they can attack me and I can attack them in a "fair fight." I assume that the rules do not allow us to damage the mobs prior to fighting them. So softening them by letting them drop down the chute, so they only have 1 heart left is not kosher? Might want to add that to the rules. Thanks
Unless I'm mistaken, you can also use level 1 enchantments to lower the cost of clearing out junk, or find another item to enchant. Close, you are combining restrictions that need not be combined. If you set up an "arena" (killing the skeletons in a fair fight, no drop damage, etc.), the speed that you kill them is not an issue. It is only with grinders (automatic damage and/or no risk to you, mob punch traps and such) that mobs kill rates are limited. If you dropped your skeletons through water and fought them below, that would be considered an arena/mob farm, and would not have grinder restriction of 1 mob every 4 seconds. I'll modify the grinder section for the "softening" problem. Something like: "These are farms which have automatic killing [...]" -> "These are farms which have automatic damaging [...]" Thanks for pointing that one out ^^.
That makes sense EZ. I cannot figure out how to get a spawner down to 1 per 4 seconds. But no matter. Out of curiosity can a grinder be set to kill the mob (not iron golems or Zombie Pigman) to just kill mobs without XP? I am guessing no, but I thought I would ask. I wouldn't mind setting up a zombie spawner I found to give me rotten flesh to trade with villagers. It takes a ton of flesh to trade for any quantity. With skeletons, the drops are a little more valuable. For someone with salvage mcmmo skills the armor would be nice, but I am no where near that level.
A grinder can kill the mob and not grant xp, but it is still considered a grinder, so grinder rules still apply. As for getting the grinder down to that rate, I don't know. This is why it it still a proposal. When we figure out implementation and solutions for players using grinders that were made illegal, then we will push this to the server.