Let's talk about McMMO and other fantasy plugins

When I joined ShadeCrest many years ago, I joined because I really liked our plugin setup. One of those plugins that was most important to me was McMMO. For a while now, people know I've talked about amping back up McMMO to be less nerfed on survival. I would also like to talk about potentially other plugins for Survival. So please provide your feedback!

With the recent surge of our Survival players playing Unturned, I came to the realization that one of the things that makes that game so fun/addictive are a combination of a few things:

1. Getting semi-regular skill ups is fun and feels rewarding
2. Having nice perks are for building skills is fun / rewarding
3. Zombies in that game are actually frightening
4. Dying is actually a big deal because you lose skills, it adds to the fright factor
5. Going out on adventure for "loot" is EXTREMELY fun and addicting

So how could we apply some of these concepts to ShadeCrest?

1. Undo the nerfing of XP gain, use the plugin publisher's recommended XP gain settings
2. Undo the disabling of the really cool McMMO perks (real super breaker, gold anvil salvaging, etc)
3. Figure out if there are things to we can do to add stronger monsters on ShadeCrest through other plugins
4. Dying means losing McMMO skills, not as drastically as dying in Unturned, but maybe you use like 1-5% skill gained from each skill or something. We can figure out what the right amount is to make death feel like a big deal but not heartbreaking. Death while PvP flagged would not result in loss of McMMO skill, we don't want to adversely affect PvP.
5. Make murder farms illegal in general. You can't create threat-less environments to kill mobs without the thread of being hurt. This is important because if we make the above changes, people can't just sit back and farm free skill ups.
6. Build more dungeons, add custom loot drops in the dungeon world, increase chest loot in things like the ShadeCrest dungeons because the risk will be higher so the reward should be a LOT higher than it is now
7. We COULD extend McMMO. In other words, it could be that you need a certain level of skill to be able to use certain custom plugins we implement. I know ezeiger92 has had a lot of ideas on new totally custom things he wants to code for ShadeCrest and we could tie those things to McMMO skills. For example, you could need a certain level of fishing skill to be able to remove the poison gland from a pufferfish. Then you could need a certain level of alchemy to make a pufferfish poison potion. I don't know just thinking of things off the top of my head.
8. Possibly new plugins all together which add more fantasy like features to ShadeCrest, adding more depth to the game and further separating gap in the setup of Survival and Vanilla+
9. Other ideas the player base comes up with

 

My only issue with losing skill when you die is that when you get stuck in a death loop like if your spawn gets raided by armed zombies you could potentially lose all you've worked for.

I'm in two minds about murder farms. I can see why they might be a problem. They are a huge game changer for leveling up xp but I have come to rely on them for quick pick repairs.

As far as MCMMO I'd love to play with some of the advanced skills. I think it adds nicely to the sandbox style of play as far as skill leveling.

 

Mcmmo is off from mob spawners to begin with, and if it isnt then there is a thing for it. I'm quite partial to my spawners, and not really interested in loosing 75k worth of spawners being moved, especially now that I can't play nearly as much.

 

Making mob farms illegal in general would be harsh on the people who use them for xp ^hint Stephen and nmb and myself. I hear that uh mobs from spawners give less mcmmo xp than outdoor mobs. If turning off mcmmo xp from spawned mobs is an option to let every one keep their xp farms everyone would be happier with the proposed changes.

 

You get no xp from mobs spawned from spawners at all.

 

^ then why would cyber want murder farms illegal?

EDIT: nvm endermen farms?

 

If we have to lose mob spawners for McMMO, I am going to kill somebody.

 

I'm talking regular xp here as opposed to MCMMO levels.

 

So we are going back to fair fight rules for all mobs?

 

The inability for people to think critically hurts my brain.

Please if you want to participate in this discussion, don't nid pick a single thing without providing feedback about the system as a whole. Don't say you're going to "kill someone" if you don't get your way, don't think about just yourself, don't assume anything I've SUGGESTED is changing tomorrow, don't ask "so are we doing XYZ now?" because nothing is changing NOW. Engage your brains and if you can't think like a game designer, maybe you should sit back and just watch the discussion quietly.

This is a big discussion about the future of ShadeCrest survival. Think about the server as a whole, what I'm proposing and understand that if you want some of the stuff I'm suggesting, it will create more interesting gameplay for all, but if you want it we need to take away some stuff that would be overpowered.

For example, mob grinding without threat of dying would mean you could farm gold armor, repair it, then salvage the gold. So if you want gold block salvaging (a feature of McMMO high level repairing which is currently disabled) then we need to either take away xp farms or alter the loot that mobs drop or something.

If we end up changing something which negatively financially affects individuals who invested in something previously legal (ex. the cost of moving spawners) then we could end up refunding or something reasonable. This is about helping the server and making it more interesting for everyone, not pissing people off.

The overall point of these changes I'm suggesting is because the game is so easy that people after a while get bored and the only thing that keeps people interested is playing with the economy. There is no SURVIVAL on our survival server. There is no depth with McMMO in a semi-neutered state. The whole point is to make Surival about Surviving again and make McMMO fun again.

If you don't like any of my proposed changes, then make suggestions on what you would remove, but also suggest what you would do to retain the intent of that change. For example if you want Mob spawners and grinders to be legal, then how do we make normal survival gameplay fun for the regular player. Right now we have to turn down XP so damn slow because if we didn't then people with Enderman farms for example could hit max weapon skills in a week of grinding, but regular players who don't grind at Enderman farms could take months or a year. So unfortunately right now it's balanced for the people who are taking advantage of the easy way out. I'd rather the game be balanced for the average player PLAYING the game, aka fighting mobs.

 

Good point! We could put a cooldown on how often you lose skills so if you're in a death loop you just lose skills once.

 

The inability to process a post and see that someone is using a hyperbole to express his dislike of the idea of removing mob grinders is pretty ridiculous, ya no?

Wouldn't suddenly removing mob grinders be unfair to newbies because they have to now get stuff the hard way, while oldies have piles of loot hoarded?
Minecraft is getting old, people got bored of the spending ours of grinding gameplay, that's why they want to use auto grinders. If you take that away people will probably just not play. It's one thing if they bought the game and they changed something in the game, but this is just a wee server in the vast ocean, they just be moving on to a new ship! ARRRRRRR! Maybe one that has popcorn and free healthcare!

-Massive edits by Erik to make this readable-

 

If we're gonna give Mcmmo a buff, then I agree with the idea that enderman farms and other non-spawner farms should be illegal. However, I don't see the problem with spawner-based mob farms. After all, they don't give Mcmmo xp.

Getting 30 levels is pretty hard without a farm. It's even more frustrating for example, to get Bane V after all that work. We could just allow spawner farms, since they don't affect Mcmmo. Or we could have an easier way to get xp or improve enchanting.

Since we're trying to make survival more fun, perhaps we could find xp bottles in dungeons. Or have mobs drop more xp. Maybe even tie it into Mcmmo itself. Using certain Mcmmo skills would give you vanilla xp.

The other way is to modify enchanting itself. Make a lower level limit for enchanting? Maybe 20 instead of 30? The new 1.8 has us able to see part of what enchantment we will get. We could maybe use a similar plugin(atleast before we update to 1.8) so people won't waste levels on enchantments they don't want.

I understand players should have to work for xp. I'm not trying to make it too easy. It would still be considerable harder than grinders. But players don't want to spend a lot of time grinding for levels, which is not fun at all.

 

By this logic, you're suggesting that players don't want to have to work for anything. By that logic, you're saying why would anyone want to play on a SURVIVAL server when they could just play on a Creative server where you don't have to grind for stuff. You can just get everything you need to build instantly in creative.

Yes, this makes sense. I was mostly concerned about non-spawner based grinders which could be exploited to gain massive amounts of McMMO skill and defeat the whole point of a an attempt to revive the survival in our Survival server. I still have concerns about the drops granted from spawner spawned mobs though in combination with the Savage skill of Repair. Maybe we can figure out a way to prevent spawner mobs from dropping items.

Overall though, I still think it's silly that enchanting XP is basically a joke on ShadeCrest. We might as well just have a button at spawn and an enchanting table where players can click a button and it gives the amount of XP gained for killing a zombie. Then players could stand there and just mindlessly click that button for hours. We could even have a grand library setup with an enchanting table with zomebies in cages. You could say that you're siphoning the life out of the zombies for xp. That's basically what the server has today, it's just called /warp emporium.

Oh also we could have admin chestshops that sell arrows and bone for zero rupies.

 

Just my opinion, don't reply like "I NOT DO THUT!"

I don't use McMMO that much, and don't care about it as such. The only reason I use it is for super breaker and that stuff.
I do, however, use mob grinders, and I use them a lot. I'd be very angry to lose XP grinders for a few more improvements to McMMO, and turn Minecraft into Unturned.

 

Do you vote? Again, here at ShadeCrest we might as well have a button at spawn that gives you 30 levels. I play about 10 minutes a week and get about 64 diamonds a week or so just from voting and enchant about 5-6 level 30 diamond tools a week.

In terms of XP granted from mobs killing them in a legitimate way, yes I agree which is why I recommended some kind of xp increase for actually playing the game. Yes we could give out XP pots in chests in dungeons and such, that's something I could add to the loot tables. Besides, even right now, an evening in the ShadeCrest Sewers will get you about 30 levels easily and lots of loot. I've been meaning to increase the loot gained there, but there hasn't been enough feedback other than "we want more loot".

Enchanting XP is granted for mining. Enchanting XP is granted for smelting. Enchanting XP is granted for breeding. Enchanting XP is granted for brewing. So yes, enchanting XP is tied to McMMO skills...

You know you joined an McMMO Survival server right?

 

Hmm, I forgot about voting.

I had no idea we had a dungeon world. Seems like a good idea. Haven't had enough time to play it through completely yet.

For custom loot:
-Sword that makes you run faster when wielding it. For aggressive players.
-Food that makes you mine/chop/dig faster for limited amount of time.. For people without beacons or alchemy skill
-Bone that can tame infinite(Or large) amount of wolves. Could be useful if mob farms are disabled.
-etc. Just some ideas.

 

Yes we have a dungeon world. I've been wanting to setup advertisments at spawn, like a dungeon hub building that advertises the various dungeons, maybe even has warp portals you can walk through which takes you to the dungeon in question. Currently there's one main dungeon running PhatLoots, which is a mod where you go through the dungeon fighting mobs, finding loot in chests, solving puzzles, surviving.

Since we're on the topic of cool plugins, here's something for people to think about. Again the idea is to give people interesting things to do and encourage people to PLAY on ShadeCrest survival, not just login, vote, grind on easy xp grinders, play the economy game, and log off.

On the topic of McMMO, we can in special regions or worlds grant players an McMMO permission which gives them an XP bonus. So for example in the Dungeon world, you could get +25% xp or something like that vs running around in Survival or Mining.
http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/phatloots/ <--- This is PhatLoots as previously mentioned, used heavily in the dungeon world
http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/quests/ <-- questing mod with McMMO / PhatLoots support
http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/epicboss/ <--- Epic boss, ability to define special boss mobs for dungeons or quests
http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/phatloots/files/79-epic-boss-loot-v1-0-addon/ <--- Epic boss loots for integrating epic boss with PhatLoots

Ideas for quests (blatently stolen from another server's example quest list):
♦ Farmer Job: Farm and replant wheat and get a stack of bread
♦ Hard Farmer Job: Farm all type of food.
♦ Baker Job: Find ingredients to bake a cake and pie.
♦ Lumberjack Job: Chop three stacks of logs.
♦ Fisherman Job: Get a road and fish some fishes
♦ Hunter Job: Killing chickens, cows and pigs
♦ Mob Hunter Job: Killing zombies and skeletons
♦ Miner Job:Mine Coal and Iron
♦ Hard Miner Job: Mine Iron, Gold, Lapiz and Diamonds
♦ Merchant Job: Deliver goods from a town to other one.

♦ Charlie the Chicken: Deliver some ingredients to the Witch, so she can turn Charlie back into human.
♦ Jack & Miss Acacia: Jack and Acacia love each other, help them to express their love.
♦ Madelaine: Kill some Ghasts and deliver a Ghast Tear to the witch.
♦ Wither Slayer: Create a Wither and kill it.
♦ Witch Hunter: Kill a bunch of witches living at a Mushroom town.
♦ Dragon Slayer: A long trip to a Mysterious Island full of Giants. After solving a riddle you'll recieve the map to find the volcano where the Dragon lives.