Stock Markets!

I just thought it would be really fun to play with real world stock markets while many of us kids are too young to own stock and it would teach us a great lesson. I found a plugin similar to what I am looking for and would like to see what the community thinks. A lot of us have an empty feeling inside of us since the lottery was taken out due to problems. This plugin can help regulate money and reward the ones who spend the time and teach the players with loss how to be profitable within the stock market. I hope several of you feel the same way as I do and accept the plugin.

http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/realstockmarket/
link to one that I found

EDIT: I feel like its my turn to suggest something for the community
PS: No Grammar errors right?

 

If you want to learn a lesson about the stock market, invest a lot of your time on here:
http://mc.shadecrest.com/ChestShop/

At the end of the day, the basics of the stock market is people invest in one of three things:
Commodities, Businesses, or Bonds. "Playing" the market on Shadecrest is much like investing in commodities. The admin ingot shop also sets market standards for iron, gold, and diamond. This is very similar to how the gold standard sets the pace of other commodities of the market based on relative worth against the standard. Investing in businesses is like if you were to lend me rupies to setup a shop and then I would pay you back over time as I made money off my shop. Bonds would be issued by the government of the server if the server wasn't able to just print money which it does every day at the rate at which rupies are given out via voting.

So there you go. We already have a stock market on the server. I do give you 2 points of effort and a good suggestion. I just don't think this kind of thing would help, it would cause more economic issues.

 

I think it's a pretty cool idea, closer to a bank plugin, but there's a chance it'll go up or down. Would be interesting to see how it works.

 

we need more people with more money buying more things for this to work....

 

I'm not sure if you understand the concept, it pulls prices for shares from a real world stock market. E.g. spend 1160 rupies buying 1 share in GOOG (Google), and then selling that share for what it's worth. Real world activity affects prices, so it'll work regardless of how many people use it.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

I voted yes, it sounds like a fun long term investment.

That said, there's no way for me to undermine my peers businesses, but ah well, there's always next time.

 

You don't realize how cheap some stocks are there are a few for under $10 but are hard to find.

I am looking for daily activity to invest my time into not a price of flowers raising in a couple of years due to a shortage

For people who vote "I Disagree" I want to hear reasons the real question is "why not"

Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle.
Martin Luther King Jr.

And the old saying
"you don't know until you try"

All I want is this this plugin tried out or given a chance. I wouldn't mind if we used the non realistic one and made our own stocks.

 

Imagine if everyone on the server sold all their iron, gold, and diamonds to the OreShop. Then took all the rupies to buy stock that has been consistently climbing. Then they don't play for a month or so, some back and they have tons more money. They sell their stock, win. Now you're probably thinking (and you're right) there is the chance of people losing money in stock sales, but in essence it's a glorified gambling system.

If that's what people want it's fine. I'm just concerned about what it will do to the economy. We already inject a lot of rupies per player per day into the economy through voting (for those who do vote), we inject rupies into the economy through buying ingots at the ore shop, now we will be injecting more rupies into the economy through the stock market. That's three regular ways for the amount of currency in the economy to increase with what ways for it to decrease? Well it decreases when tools / armor is used because resources get used and then more resources are inevitably bought, it decreases when taxes are paid, it decreases when chests are locked. Right now let's assume things are balanced (which I doubt they are) and players can make money at a reasonable rate without being economically starved. Introducing a new system will create at best another system which will inject economic imbalance.

Especially if people log on every day, they vote, then they invest their vote money in stocks... it could really get out of hand with the laws of exponential growth. Then once regular players have hundreds of thousands of rupies it will cause inflation in the resource markets, the market will be able to bare a lot of money so prices will go up based on supply / demand and the fact that the purchasers have a higher spending power. This will mostly affect people who don't have a ton of money's ability to buy resources. Since we have an Iron, Gold, and Diamond standard those things won't go up, but then we have another problem where people will have tons of money and could buy diamonds like dirt. Either then we have to inflate the standards (as would happen in a real market with large inflation) or don't care that we have a huge economic imbalance. If we increase the standard it makes things a lot harder for the new guy just joining the server. Inevitably if a lot of players have a TON of money they gained through external systems besides buying/selling resources, then people will start falling into one of three categories A. horder: wants 2 double chests full of every resource and buys tons of everything to feel good about all the money they have B. controller: wants to control the market by buying up everyone's shops and creating walmart C. poor: feels put off by the economic state of the server and feels spited by the clear economic imbalance, probably leaves the server if they actually care about a server with a healthy economy.

When you say "you don't know until you try," that's assuming the person analyzing the situation doesn't have experience with real world economic balance and virtual economic systems design to know. Those who do realize what something like this WILL do we clearly have indicated we are not interested in this kind of plugin. We don't have to implement it, watch it ruin the server economy then go "ooops".

There's several signs of a healthy economy. There should be several, well established shops which players run markets. New players should feel like they can get in on niche markets. Overall players shouldn't feel SUPER RICH, but they shouldn't feel poor either. It takes a lot of work to properly manage an economy. If the server was in perfect economic balance, then I might consider something like this, so when I say no my vote is "no, not now". Much more work needs to be done to evaluate the current economic state of the server and fix existing economic systems if anything needs to be fixed before introducing another variable.

Again, I applaud you for introducing a neat idea, just not sure if it's the right time for it if ever.

 

We can always limit the amount of stocks that people can buy or amount of money invested in the market. Our problem right now is removing money from the economy because of the server having the recent "NEW" map. An option to balance the economy could be making our own stock market where a single admin can control it or it randomly raising/decreasing. I agree that "over night millionaires" would be a problem. We can limit the amounts bought and the maximum amount a stock can raise (EX: .5r) then we set the chances of it dropping so as the price goes up the chance of it loosing value raises (Making it a game of luck) We can start at high percentage of loss rates. Then as the server economy evens out, we can drop the loss rates making the market more profitable. This system has no guarantees but I believe it would be more stable then using the real stock market. I understand that you feel like this could crash the server economy, but I just wish to try this for a couple of days. The lottery was similar to this plugin considering people invested their money to win more, but the loss rates were high.

People who voted yes/no but are not participating:
give your reasons (bias) why you voted no/yes

A good test for this plugin would have a group of selected individuals have permissions to use the plugin for a couple of days (If it is generally balanced then the plugin could work/ If someone ends up with all the money then the plugin wont work).

 

Well... like that was the point. The point was to take money out of the economy by fixing the odds, similar to how vegas fixes the odds so the house wins. Most gambling setups are done in such a ways to ensure that over time there might be small winnings by the public but the lottery makes money. In the case of a Minecraft lottery, yes there will be single winners but over time more and more money is taken out of the economy which is healthy for the economy. What you seem to want is basically a lottery where you can if investing intelligently always win which is counter intuitive to the desires of creating a money sink for the virtual economy.

If a single admin controlled it, that would just be all kinds of bad because the single admin would just either always favor people losing money or visa versa. It would be hard thing for an individual to manage. Second off, it being random would actually be NO better than a lottery. Part of what makes the stock market interesting is that it isn't random. It's based on trends, facts, research. I dunno the more I hear about the implementation it seems like you just want a different kind of lottery. One with higher win rates, micro management by the staff, and you would want it tested for a couple of days which is a pretty small sample size to test anything, especially something with economic impacts.

 

I initially voted yes because it looks like it can be both fun and teach people about the stock market. Unfortunately the stock market isnt doing as bad as it used to (thanksObama.gif) so if you invest in big companies like google, apple, microsoft, ect. You're really only going to make money. I guess we could block companies and limit the # of stocks by blocking those specific commands.

 

Actually last year I made 29.5% on my 401k and it was through smart investing in a diversified portfolio. Also the overall health of the stock market has nothing to do with Obama. Big companies like the ones you listed are only going to climb small percentages year over year. If you're unsure about what "safe" companies to invest in, it's easy to get trending reports, public records, financial reports, etc. They are great if you're at retirement age and want about a 6% return on investment. Of course if you had 10,000 rupies in these kinds of stock and got a year over year 6% return, you would get 1 day of voting money returned over the year. Yes you would always make money, but very very slowly.

Diversifying in both US and foreign stocks will yield the greatest return on investment. Since we're talking about funny money in a game, it makes most sense to be as risky as possible. Overall, unless this plugin allows for compounding investing which is what really happens when you have a stock portfolio with proper management, then at most you're going to be gaining about a max of around 30% year over year. Meaning if you invested 100,000 rupies into the stock market you would get a return of 30,000 which is about 2 months worth of voting every day. It really only gets crazy when you start having people investing a million or more rupies in the stock market and their money is making money. Also keep in mind if people keep voting while doing the stock market in game, the amount they are investing keeps going up and the stocks themselves are going up so over time it's like a 401k. It's modest at first but over time it gets pretty huge.

Overall I think the smarter thing would be to implement a better lottery which is appropriately scaled based on the size of the server, etc. You want it to be one where there's no guarantee of winning so people always play, but they can play in small amounts, then the pot increases every time if no one wins. This is how any big lottery is run. The odds of winning in a normal lottery is generally setup so no one wins for weeks / months so the pot gets bigger which entices more and more people to play. We would obviously compress things down to daily drawings, so the same setup ideally would be no one wins for days and sometimes weeks, but that is when the pot gets big and people get excited. The payout from the lottery is always based on the previous drawing if no one won plus 25% of the money people payed into the pot last time it was drawn. If someone did win, you take 50% of the money people payed into the pot this last drawing and use that as the starting pot, refreshing the cycle. By doing things this way, people FEEL like there's always more money to win, but in the end the people running the lottery are taking more money ALWAYS than they are giving out. It's a perfect cycle which results in money always being taken out of the economy, never injecting anymore in than the VERY first pot to seed the lottery. Ideally we would want low odds of winning, but not so low that no one wins. There's a reasonable formula you can use to figure out the odds based on the average number of single tickets a player might purchase. Also it helps if the lottery like a real lottery allows for multiple ticket purchases, each being a unique chance of winning. Finally, one thing to keep people buying tickets would be small payouts, again this is common in all real lottery systems.

 

All I am hearing is that the stocks will provide great wealth but there are easy ways to make this plugin more difficult to obtain money (for one block well off companies). Cyber, your points are valid, but are easily fixed. When I meant random, I meant it for another plugin that is not based off of the real market. The poll is starting to even out providing a battle with no end in sight. The choices are clear, either have the plugin tested to see if it would fit the server, or completely disregard it and let the server not change. Change is a hard fought battle in which many do not favor, but I am here to persuade you that change can be good and at least give it a chance.

EDIT: Normal-ish citizens of Shadecrest please voice your opinions like drop-bear did even if you don't want to post a paragraph you can leave a sentence

 

i like this.

 

http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/stock_market/
Here's one of the ones that I was talking about.

About change, I do favor it (including my public reputation). I believe this server has the potential to be one of the best. there are 2 types of servers 90% are spoofs or have abusive players and the remaining 10 % are the servers with a caring community and a balance of mods to vanilla. We all know that our server is within this 10% but we are not being promoted or advertised. We are lucky to even have over 10 slot servers, but the inactivity to the soul who had the dream in the first place is hurting us.

 

Give me a week. I'll be running the economy.

I really like this idea. Seems like a really fun way to invest and gain rupies. I'm in.

 

Why not do both? A lottery and a stock market would keep the money flowing, give the server 2 money making options; outside of hard labour.

 

i was just meaning that it would be more fun with more active people, so we need more people for it to be worth doing